Cultish is a great book. I'm older and not from a conservative church but my parents were involved in the Charismatic movement of the late sixties for a while, though they recognized how easy it was for a few individuals to turn those into cults. We talk a lot about the Satanic Panic, but concerns about Satanism was already widespread in the late sixties and early seventies, at least in the Midwest. It was often tangled up with drugs and sometimes UFOs and the paranormal. There really was a build up of many decades that exploded in the 80s and after. We are still feeling those effects.
Oooh yes, lots of other interesting mindsets mixed in with the Charismatic Movement for sure. I didn’t grow up knowing a ton about it because the groups I grew up with thought the Charismatic Movement was demonic, but I’ve since read and heard more about people’s experiences in that, and that’s another whole can of worms. I’m glad your parents didn’t get super sucked into it. Now you’re making me want to learn more about the thought processes in those religions during the 60’s and 70’s!
Having grown up in a cult, I can testify that some of those things are, indeed, cult adjacent. Especially the fear that God's judgment is about to fall on America. (My parent spent years in other countries, both to "preach the gospel to every creature" but just as importantly to leave America before it was too late.
I like your current philosophy. Try not to do harm; try to do some good, and steer clear of people claiming there's only one way to do things (especially if its THEIR way).
B shared this on fb and I responded there but I wanted to respond here too. I appreciate your honest vulnerable sharing! Very interesting! I don't remember the S America and New Zealand plans. I hear your heart. Keep seeking! It's helpful to hear how you were impacted.
I love the little hand written notes with red flags and pants on fire.And last but not least, I love that picture of you! SOOO adorable.
Thank you <3 I know we have diverged in our thinking on these things, but I’m thankful that you’re still in my life, and wanting to listen. Yes, the moving to another country thing popped up quite a bit for a few years there! Wild times.
Wow! I feel all of this so deeply. I had similar experiences in an Evangelical/Pentecostal church. I wrote about a traumatic experience in this article I’m including in case you’re interested.
Organized Religion really messed me up and even decades later, (and after years of therapy) I’m still trying to free myself from its hooks.
I don’t know if this helps at all but I tend to be A.)highly analytical and B.) distrustful of anything that excuses any form of exclusion.
I’m a highly sensitive person and I do often feel connected to something bigger—something spiritual and for twenty years I thought I knew what that meant, yet my more analytical side was often at odds with aspects of my own faith. The more I began to seek inward, asking impossible questions, I began feeling more insight. I think trusting our own instincts leads us to answers that we may have otherwise had no awareness. I believe that there are clues within the texts of most major religions that The Universe and what we call “God” are the same thing. In other words… “God” is not a magical man in the sky. The universe is everything and it’s everywhere, even within us. It has no beginning or end, it’s infinite. Being infinite, everything is possible. This gets complex and confusing unless you’re a quantum physics expert… and even the best and brightest of them are still searching for answers. That said, there is MUCH that’s open to interpretation. If you don’t know what “the observer effect” is, google it sometime—it’s beyond fascinating. I’m going to try my best to explain it but I can tell you I’m not intelligent enough to do it justice… Quantum physicists have studied particles passing through a space. When they observe this, those particles behave in the way they expect them to. They recorded them with a special camera for later viewing and they passed through not only the open space, but also solid matter—which according to standard physics should be impossible. What does this have to do with Religion? Well, nothing really, as religion is really just our way of answering questions that have no easy explanations. What it does tell us, however, is that our own perceptions change the way we experience just about everything. Because I tend to feel things spiritually, I don’t have an issue with Religion, per se—as long as it’s used in a way to better the human experience as a whole. The problem is that when we have “Organized” religions, we give power to leaders which opens the doors to all sorts of corruption. Then consider the monetary aspect. I don’t care how pure the intentions may be, humans are inherently greedy, thus more corruption. To say that the love of money is the root of evil holds significant truth — just look at what’s happening in the US right now as it’s being led by the power hungry and greedy. It’s destructive to say the least.
I’m going to use Christianity as an example here, but only because it’s how I was raised, so I have more knowledge about it. The books of the Bible were written by men. Human men, nothing more. Some were scholars, some claimed to be prophets who said they were receiving messages from God. A few were present during Jesus’ time. Then you have books like Leviticus, for example, which is merely a book of ancient health codes from a time long before any kind of modern medicine. Now consider that while parts of the Bible were meant to be taken literally, other parts are metaphorical. The Old Testament is a grouping of books from before Jesus’ time and much of those texts had more to do with humanity doing all kinds of things in order to “please God” because each culture had their own traditions and surprise, surprise… their beliefs differed vastly. During Jesus’ time, he called out the greedy, the power hungry, the Pharisees who were calling people sinners and telling them they were disobeying God, then putting them to death for a myriad of reasons. So God/the Universe sends a man who teaches people that the true way to love God is to love others, to live without greed; not only monetary greed but this also likely had to do with using resources responsibly, not being wasteful, etc, much like other (more spiritually attuned)cultures lived, such as Buddhists, or even Native Americans. Surely others as well but again, my knowledge is limited. Lastly, think about how translation works. There isn’t one language that translates perfectly into another AND we’re talking about texts written in multiple ancient languages. Put all of these factors together and the room for errors is astronomical. It’s no wonder that some parts of the Bible contradict other parts.
The same can be said for all ancient texts. There’s some elements of truth and a lot of inaccuracies. Christians pride themselves on being “the one true Religion” but the irony is that Religion is supposed to be based on what Christ actually taught and most modern Christian teachings are preaching “truths” that directly contradict what Jesus taught. You could say that Love is the true religion, except that REAL love (as a verb) is pure and religion is full of corruption.
As for major religions, who am I (with my EXTREMELY limited knowledge of an infinite universe) to say that I know which, if any religion is right? It’s not possible to determine.
All of that said, I no longer consider myself a “religious” person. I do, however consider myself a spiritual person. I’m also analytical. This all aligns with trusting your instincts and being curious and unafraid to question things.
You’re preaching to the choir, friend. I’m familiar with all the concepts you talked about, and have similar beliefs :) I’m sorry for all the pain you went through to get to this place. Wishing you continued healing.
The healing is definitely a journey. Religious abuse is just another form of mental/emotional abuse. They say it’s the hardest to heal from because our scars are invisible.
Wishing you continued healing as well and so much love and light!🩷
Cultish is a great book. I'm older and not from a conservative church but my parents were involved in the Charismatic movement of the late sixties for a while, though they recognized how easy it was for a few individuals to turn those into cults. We talk a lot about the Satanic Panic, but concerns about Satanism was already widespread in the late sixties and early seventies, at least in the Midwest. It was often tangled up with drugs and sometimes UFOs and the paranormal. There really was a build up of many decades that exploded in the 80s and after. We are still feeling those effects.
Oooh yes, lots of other interesting mindsets mixed in with the Charismatic Movement for sure. I didn’t grow up knowing a ton about it because the groups I grew up with thought the Charismatic Movement was demonic, but I’ve since read and heard more about people’s experiences in that, and that’s another whole can of worms. I’m glad your parents didn’t get super sucked into it. Now you’re making me want to learn more about the thought processes in those religions during the 60’s and 70’s!
Having grown up in a cult, I can testify that some of those things are, indeed, cult adjacent. Especially the fear that God's judgment is about to fall on America. (My parent spent years in other countries, both to "preach the gospel to every creature" but just as importantly to leave America before it was too late.
I like your current philosophy. Try not to do harm; try to do some good, and steer clear of people claiming there's only one way to do things (especially if its THEIR way).
I hope you’ve been able to find healing and happiness in your adult life. I know the layers of trauma run so deep with these things <3
B shared this on fb and I responded there but I wanted to respond here too. I appreciate your honest vulnerable sharing! Very interesting! I don't remember the S America and New Zealand plans. I hear your heart. Keep seeking! It's helpful to hear how you were impacted.
I love the little hand written notes with red flags and pants on fire.And last but not least, I love that picture of you! SOOO adorable.
Lots to contemplate.
Thank you <3 I know we have diverged in our thinking on these things, but I’m thankful that you’re still in my life, and wanting to listen. Yes, the moving to another country thing popped up quite a bit for a few years there! Wild times.
Wow! I feel all of this so deeply. I had similar experiences in an Evangelical/Pentecostal church. I wrote about a traumatic experience in this article I’m including in case you’re interested.
https://open.substack.com/pub/tirzahmiles/p/the-holy-ghost-car-wash?r=4p8a7o&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Organized Religion really messed me up and even decades later, (and after years of therapy) I’m still trying to free myself from its hooks.
I don’t know if this helps at all but I tend to be A.)highly analytical and B.) distrustful of anything that excuses any form of exclusion.
I’m a highly sensitive person and I do often feel connected to something bigger—something spiritual and for twenty years I thought I knew what that meant, yet my more analytical side was often at odds with aspects of my own faith. The more I began to seek inward, asking impossible questions, I began feeling more insight. I think trusting our own instincts leads us to answers that we may have otherwise had no awareness. I believe that there are clues within the texts of most major religions that The Universe and what we call “God” are the same thing. In other words… “God” is not a magical man in the sky. The universe is everything and it’s everywhere, even within us. It has no beginning or end, it’s infinite. Being infinite, everything is possible. This gets complex and confusing unless you’re a quantum physics expert… and even the best and brightest of them are still searching for answers. That said, there is MUCH that’s open to interpretation. If you don’t know what “the observer effect” is, google it sometime—it’s beyond fascinating. I’m going to try my best to explain it but I can tell you I’m not intelligent enough to do it justice… Quantum physicists have studied particles passing through a space. When they observe this, those particles behave in the way they expect them to. They recorded them with a special camera for later viewing and they passed through not only the open space, but also solid matter—which according to standard physics should be impossible. What does this have to do with Religion? Well, nothing really, as religion is really just our way of answering questions that have no easy explanations. What it does tell us, however, is that our own perceptions change the way we experience just about everything. Because I tend to feel things spiritually, I don’t have an issue with Religion, per se—as long as it’s used in a way to better the human experience as a whole. The problem is that when we have “Organized” religions, we give power to leaders which opens the doors to all sorts of corruption. Then consider the monetary aspect. I don’t care how pure the intentions may be, humans are inherently greedy, thus more corruption. To say that the love of money is the root of evil holds significant truth — just look at what’s happening in the US right now as it’s being led by the power hungry and greedy. It’s destructive to say the least.
I’m going to use Christianity as an example here, but only because it’s how I was raised, so I have more knowledge about it. The books of the Bible were written by men. Human men, nothing more. Some were scholars, some claimed to be prophets who said they were receiving messages from God. A few were present during Jesus’ time. Then you have books like Leviticus, for example, which is merely a book of ancient health codes from a time long before any kind of modern medicine. Now consider that while parts of the Bible were meant to be taken literally, other parts are metaphorical. The Old Testament is a grouping of books from before Jesus’ time and much of those texts had more to do with humanity doing all kinds of things in order to “please God” because each culture had their own traditions and surprise, surprise… their beliefs differed vastly. During Jesus’ time, he called out the greedy, the power hungry, the Pharisees who were calling people sinners and telling them they were disobeying God, then putting them to death for a myriad of reasons. So God/the Universe sends a man who teaches people that the true way to love God is to love others, to live without greed; not only monetary greed but this also likely had to do with using resources responsibly, not being wasteful, etc, much like other (more spiritually attuned)cultures lived, such as Buddhists, or even Native Americans. Surely others as well but again, my knowledge is limited. Lastly, think about how translation works. There isn’t one language that translates perfectly into another AND we’re talking about texts written in multiple ancient languages. Put all of these factors together and the room for errors is astronomical. It’s no wonder that some parts of the Bible contradict other parts.
The same can be said for all ancient texts. There’s some elements of truth and a lot of inaccuracies. Christians pride themselves on being “the one true Religion” but the irony is that Religion is supposed to be based on what Christ actually taught and most modern Christian teachings are preaching “truths” that directly contradict what Jesus taught. You could say that Love is the true religion, except that REAL love (as a verb) is pure and religion is full of corruption.
As for major religions, who am I (with my EXTREMELY limited knowledge of an infinite universe) to say that I know which, if any religion is right? It’s not possible to determine.
All of that said, I no longer consider myself a “religious” person. I do, however consider myself a spiritual person. I’m also analytical. This all aligns with trusting your instincts and being curious and unafraid to question things.
You’re preaching to the choir, friend. I’m familiar with all the concepts you talked about, and have similar beliefs :) I’m sorry for all the pain you went through to get to this place. Wishing you continued healing.
The healing is definitely a journey. Religious abuse is just another form of mental/emotional abuse. They say it’s the hardest to heal from because our scars are invisible.
Wishing you continued healing as well and so much love and light!🩷
So glad to see this come in and read about your upbringing. Thank you for sharing your experience and hope for all others. Missed you!
Sorry for the long wait! Thank you so much for being here <3
Another great post! Whew—we DID “grow up weird” 😬😌
That we did. So glad I had someone like you by my side <3
I’m glad you were able to break away from that group, and wish you continued healing <3